[Submission] Quad-Shotgun

Blue Shadow wrote: Firstly, let me say that I'm not much of a fan of this type of shotguns. I consider anything beyond two barrels is ridiculous, and game-balance nightmare.

Ha ha, yeah, see my first post. But there's always been a constant demand for a quad shotgun, so I don't see any harm in letting this one run its course and see how it ends up.

MagicWazard wrote:

Blue Shadow wrote: Firstly, let me say that I'm not much of a fan of this type of shotguns. I consider anything beyond two barrels is ridiculous, and game-balance nightmare.

Ha ha, yeah, see my first post. But there's always been a constant demand for a quad shotgun, so I don't see any harm in letting this one run its course and see how it ends up.

Sticking the Alternative version from now on. Singleshot version with Quadshot & Reload was a good idea and it was a great start, but after Blue_Shadow's recent feedback, it's going to be easier on everyone to just keep things more toned down. But now I do worry that this and not being able to really beef up the idle sprites is going to really mess up it's chances of going further, but C'est la vie... :fear:

I'd prefer upping the pellet count (maybe to 30 or so?) rather than changing the damage of each pellet; even though the total damage may balance out, I find the huge amount of puffs and blood splats produced by the higher pellet count to be quite entertaining.

I'm still keeping this in mind, but, do have to remember that it does use more ammo and unless there is some damage increase it's pretty much pointless to waste an extra 2 shotgun shells & 3 seconds when you could be half way through reloading a Double-Barrelled Shotgun (think I've just dug myself into a hole now lol)... The Updated version is now online. Damage & Spread changes aren't perfect and still open to change.

Managed to get a "stable" 1 shot for each barrel instead of resetting to the first when firing once, configuration setup again, I had one once before but lost the file after some technical issues (not relevant to discuss) and will upload that as an update soon. So there will be 1 Version that has 2 firing modes & then the current version that was the alternative to the original idea.

As for the other issue with the reload images (where it empties all 4 & reloads all 4 each time). That's a cosmetic issue only affecting a few people's expectations or standards, that is down to user personal preference, it doesn't effect the weapon and if anybody wants to change that then they are free to try and do so. It is something I've been trying to work on (alongside other projects)... if the reload sprite "problem" is ever completed then I will add it, if not. Sorry, but you'll have make do with what I've given.

Well... I thought I'd help out a bit here.. Just a few nitpicks I noticed, but heres some changes I made to it:

-Converted the png truecolor to paletted (as stated in the submission rules)
-PNGOUT'd everything (saved about 35KB... I know, meh, but it doesn't hurt)
-Removed QSSFC0.png... and modified the decorate use QEAIA0 instead as it was just a duplicate of that really.
-Adjusted the offset of Idle sprite and firing sprites (the tip of the weapon going above the "center point" in slades hud editor makes the perspective look a bit.. off, so I lowered it to a more "natural" offset)
-Compressed the sounds a little bit more (again, meh, but theres no noticable quality loss and saving those KB's man )
-DSQGAATK.ogg was clipping a bit too much, in my opinion, so I did a few things to help that... its up to you weather you like it or not.
-Fixed the issue with the firing sound cutting out when reloading (by setting CHAN_WEAPON to CHAN_AUTO)

The only other thing I noticed whilst writing this is the 4 white pixels on QSSFA0, that would be the result of the pallet conversion... Its an easy fix so Ill leave that up to you to do.

Unfortunately though... as for making the idle sprite more interesting... I cant really think of what you could do other than do it from scratch rather than using the standard super shotgun sprite... I might see if I can make something for you if I can be bothered later.

Hope this helps

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rdibjunjw34h1iy/Quad-Shotgun-Modified.zip?dl=0

BadMojo wrote: Well... I thought I'd help out a bit here.. Just a few nitpicks I noticed, but heres some changes I made to it:

-Converted the png truecolor to paletted (as stated in the submission rules)
-PNGOUT'd everything (saved about 35KB... I know, meh, but it doesn't hurt)
-Removed QSSFC0.png... and modified the decorate use QEAIA0 instead as it was just a duplicate of that really.
-Adjusted the offset of Idle sprite and firing sprites (the tip of the weapon going above the "center point" in slades hud editor makes the perspective look a bit.. off, so I lowered it to a more "natural" offset)
-Compressed the sounds a little bit more (again, meh, but theres no noticable quality loss and saving those KB's man )
-DSQGAATK.ogg was clipping a bit too much, in my opinion, so I did a few things to help that... its up to you weather you like it or not.
-Fixed the issue with the firing sound cutting out when reloading (by setting CHAN_WEAPON to CHAN_AUTO)

The only other thing I noticed whilst writing this is the 4 white pixels on QSSFA0, that would be the result of the pallet conversion... Its an easy fix so Ill leave that up to you to do.

Unfortunately though... as for making the idle sprite more interesting... I cant really think of what you could do other than do it from scratch rather than using the standard super shotgun sprite... I might see if I can make something for you if I can be bothered later.

Hope this helps

Bad Mojo. Thank you. I'll take a look at QSSFA0. Noticed it after you've mentioned it and easily fixed. I will apply the offset changes to the re-done original version (which is coming back now barrel resets are fixed) as an extra variant of the weapon too. You will be credited for the attack sound "DSQGAATK" (it sounds a hell of a lot better adding more emphasis on the gun firing all 4 barrels) and credited for all the Offset fixes.

I really appreciate the help.

Hey no problem!

I ended up making these sprites from scratch for you too if you wanted to use them.

Its the idle, and 2 firing frames.. It doesn't look out of place against the reload frames in my opinion, but at least its different from just a doom db shotgun edit... but they could probably do with some sharpening and maybe a little contrast adjusting, perhaps a few more details here and there... but that's up to you to work on if you decide to use them

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kzqc2z2j4mpenw7/Quad-Shotgun-new-sprites.zip?dl=0

Also, on the subject of firepower, being 4 barrels and given the choice of using them all at once, I would expect some decent zombie/demon "gibbage" at close range... so perhaps when you fire all 4 barrels (if thats going to be a choice in future updates), Id imagine a really big spread (useless at a distance), lots of pellets, but when your up close, bring a cacodemon down in one shot (as a reference point to the firepower). As it stands at the moment, I cant even gib a zombie with this thing.

But, I'm still havin fun with this weapon none the less

Edit: You could consider putting QSSF A 0 A_CustomPunch(45, TRUE, 0) just above the FireBullets line, that way you can gib zombies and such at "punching" range but not effect the overall pellet damage... that way the weapon doesn't have to be overpowered, but doesn't have to be disappointing when you expect it to pack a punch (no pun intended :: )..... I did experiment with the pellet damage to have it deal that type of damage close range, but it just made the weapon too powerful overall.

I somehow think that although it states in the zdoom wiki that A_FireBullets deals damage per pellet, after experimenting with it, it doesn't... Or at least it doesn't seem to. Perhaps someone could shed some light on this?

BadMojo wrote: Hey no problem!

I ended up making these sprites from scratch for you too if you wanted to use them.

Its the idle, and 2 firing frames.. It doesn't look out of place against the reload frames in my opinion, but at least its different from just a doom db shotgun edit... but they could probably do with some sharpening and maybe a little contrast adjusting, perhaps a few more details here and there... but that's up to you to work on if you decide to use them

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kzqc2z2j4mpenw7/Quad-Shotgun-new-sprites.zip?dl=0

Also, on the subject of firepower, being 4 barrels and given the choice of using them all at once, I would expect some decent zombie/demon "gibbage" at close range... so perhaps when you fire all 4 barrels (if thats going to be a choice in future updates), Id imagine a really big spread (useless at a distance), lots of pellets, but when your up close, bring a cacodemon down in one shot (as a reference point to the firepower). As it stands at the moment, I cant even gib a zombie with this thing.

But, I'm still havin fun with this weapon none the less

Edit: You could consider putting QSSF A 0 A_CustomPunch(45, TRUE, 0) just above the FireBullets line, that way you can gib zombies and such at "punching" range but not effect the overall pellet damage... that way the weapon doesn't have to be overpowered, but doesn't have to be disappointing when you expect it to pack a punch (no pun intended :: )..... I did experiment with the pellet damage to have it deal that type of damage close range, but it just made the weapon too powerful overall.

I somehow think that although it states in the zdoom wiki that A_FireBullets deals damage per pellet, after experimenting with it, it doesn't... Or at least it doesn't seem to. Perhaps someone could shed some light on this?

Wow. Love the feedback, thank you.

I am going to (and in the progress of) using the redone sprites you've sent me. The reload sprites aren't going to be anything fancy, darker brown shades to match the idle sprites as close as possible, there isn't much else I can do because I've just got Slade, Paint & a pretty slow PC to work.

Will then use this an addition option for the "Version 2" (just the Fire & reload like SSG) of the weapon or add the sprites to an alternative appearance file for the submission. Then it's down to users to choose which is best for them, the original idea or one of two alternatives. Total of 3 files.

I agree there should be some extra "Umph" with the weapons impact, occasionally gibbing weaker enemies, but after massive debates & suggestions with Admin the damage is staying they've asked (less powerful than it originally was but more balanced) for all 2 (now possibly 3 versions) so will try the suggested custom punch idea after the new appearance is ready.

I'd suggest using gimp, it's a free photoshop alternative, it should have no problem working on a slow pc, but it's alot better than paint.

As for the damage, I agree with the admins on that one, it feels good the way it is now, but with the custom punch, it gives the opportunity to deal heavy damage at close range without sacrificing the initial balance of the overall weapon and making it too op... But to bring a cacodemon down in one shot when its up in ya face... Ooh yea! That's satisfying to me I may think about using this in my megawad when this gets submitted if that's OK with you.

I'd suggest using gimp, it's a free photoshop alternative, it should have no problem working on a slow pc, but it's alot better than paint.

Thank you. Can you send me a link to download Gimp please? Anytime I've looked for it so far, it has "expired" or simply can't be found.

A lot of Users & Administrators are happy with the current damage & spread it will be left as it is (one more thing to scratch off the list of worries lol). Will now try to add the potential Gib factors and better takedowns against Weak to Medium enemies (Zombies to guys like Cacodemons and more risky at close range enemies like Knights & Revenants) that I've also been itching to figure out with overpowering the weapon's bullet damage and making the most of the 1-12 Shells (average at mid or close range & depending on enemy) used to kill them. After the early appearance changes are in place (recoloured all the wood to darker brown (using Slade's Doom Palette so basically replacing gloves & bullet casings that have also been affected) to match new idle/firing sprites a few previews will be uploaded ASAP).

I may think about using this in my megawad when this gets submitted if that's OK with you.

Bad Mojo, By all means, feel free to use any version (or any further updates*) of this as you please. Weapons/Monsters/Items I've posted are for sharing after all.

*one will be an alternative, recoloured version of the Super-Shotgun type Version(2) with the sprites Bad Mojo has sent me. will then see where that can go, maybe replace V2 all together, just so they look different, again leaving choice of either weapon down to users preference. I still aim to hopefully submit both versions in 1 download. First item uploaded when I joined the Realm and aim to make the best of it for all of you.

Cool, cant wait to see future updates

A simple google search for gimp should suffice but heres the official webpage: https://www.gimp.org/

And heres the download link to the latest version for convenience: https://download.gimp.org/mirror/pub/gimp/v2.8/windows/gimp-2.8.18-setup.exe