[SUBMISSION] Doom RPG Ghoul

MagicWazard wrote: You can remove and submit the Ghost separately if you like. Just going off the sprites, I think it looks pretty good. I notice in DECORATE you're having him fade during certain states; instead of doing it manually, do you want to try +STEALTH and the new StealthAlpha property?

I think the Fiend looks better using the QII palette, but I still think he suffers a bit from color depth loss. If you're just using SLADE3 for your recolors, I guess that's understandable, but if you're using an art program for the recolor, then I'd save the sprites out as a custom palette instead of converting it to a game palette.

Warning: Spoiler!

Just as a hypothetical, if I was to make a Fiend sprite using Photoshop, and save it out as a custom palette, it would look something like this...

I'm using GIMP as the outside Slade image editor. But no idea how to make a custom palette when exporting so at the moment copying the original Pink Torso converts it to to the Quake II palette when added. Only other option would be to erase the torso in Gimp, cut/paste in Paint.


I'll have a look at the suggested Stealth options & see what it does for the Ghost. (Thanks for letting me know it'll be ok to submit it separately, it's not an RPG based monster, I held it back because I had other projects waiting when I finished it, didn't want to overload the forum & it'd make more sense if it is on it's own). It's meant to fade in & out only when using it's missile attack (it does, but anything to save space on the Decorate I'm sure is more than welcome), more to the player's advantage if it's fighting something else because you're blinded, but if it's attack misses, it's open to be killed quicker. Noticed that GZDoom 2.4 is needed. Downloaded the stable version GZDoom 2.4, so far so good. Running maps OK etc.


I'll submit it separately along with an update to the Ghoul's appearance (converted all the sprites to Quake II & fixed a few colours that still stood out). After testing the suggested Ghost attributes

Submitted* what's been done so far... Fiend's recoloured with Quake II palette but will be continuing MagicWazard's suggestion on re-adding the original Purple Torso, alongside adding some glowing eyes for the Ghoul & attempting to fix his Green converted issues from IMX version, maybe even removing & colouring it to a more darker colour (like a decayed corpse look) as the glowing eyes will be Green, sticking close to the original conversion.

*

Regarding making use of a custom palette in gimp, its just a matter of going to Image/Mode/Indexed... Generate optimum palette, Convert, then save the sprite and reimport back into slade. You should be able to use colors that are as close as possible to your original sprite rather than choosing a palette made for other games.

If you have an issue with the alpha channel after doing that, just set up a new layer before converting to indexed, move that layer behind your sprite and fill with a color thats not used in the sprite, this can be your transparent color.. convert to indexed mode, save, then when importing back into slade, use the "Transparent color" option and pick the color you chose.

Ok, I tested these out in battle a couple days ago, and here's my thoughts:

Ghoul: I like the idea of the additive poison damage; however, since his melee attack and poison glob projectile are fairly easy to avoid, it doesn't get much of a workout. Also, I don't really dig the nail attack--it doesn't really "feel" right for this monster. I'd run a little harder with the poison theme. My suggestion would be to combine the properties of the poison shot and nails together, and have him fire a spray of poison droplets which can each inflict additive poison. What do you think?

Fiend: Still not sure about the dual-homing projectile attack. Seeing that it used different sprites was kind of a nice surprise, though. I'll come back to this once I have some more thoughts on it.

MagicWazard wrote: Ok, I tested these out in battle a couple days ago, and here's my thoughts:

Ghoul: I like the idea of the additive poison damage; however, since his melee attack and poison glob projectile are fairly easy to avoid, it doesn't get much of a workout. Also, I don't really dig the nail attack--it doesn't really "feel" right for this monster. I'd run a little harder with the poison theme. My suggestion would be to combine the properties of the poison shot and nails together, and have him fire a spray of poison droplets which can each inflict additive poison. What do you think?

Fiend: Still not sure about the dual-homing projectile attack. Seeing that it used different sprites was kind of a nice surprise, though. I'll come back to this once I have some more thoughts on it.

I agree fully with Ghoul's nails, right idea at the time but it's now gone out of it's element, worth trying at least . I can swap them back to the poison balls, 2 at once but keeping the homing attack off (because of the Additive Poison duration & damage) but having them fly faster? The additive Damage as well as Duration on the Melee is "punishment" for allowing any Revenant to close. The thrown projectile was to compensate the removed tracer, that can go if need be because like you've said, it's too easy to avoid.

Droplets trails, great idea as well, I'm glad the whole poison theme in general, is getting some positive feedback. I wanted to add something with poison damage, but didn't want that to be too overpowering so taking this, step-by-step approach, breaking everything down a bit more is giving me some time to really try and think things through for this one.

Not entirely sure what can be done with the Fiend myself apart from some palette changes (but that's taking some time & juggling 2 things at once is distracting). When it was at it's original state it was a stronger melee based Revenant, with a lot less health & the missile sprites it has now. Ice Damage was something I had thought about. Given the Grey (now Blue) Skeleton & it's death sound, sounds like it's shattering.

If the Ghoul is ready (and everyone is OK with it) before the Fiend, I might submit it separately (or take the Fiend out now, leave it for another time). Think I've probably added too much Monsters with this one, it's a bit more complicated than the last few submissions.

What I meant for the Ghoul was more like a shotgun-style spray of droplets. Not sure if I got that across as intended. What do you think? Or maybe you can have the single large ball "splatter" upon impact, casting smaller sub-projectiles when it does.



As for the Fiend, if you want to split him off into a separate submission, that's fine, but I don't mind either way. Also, if you want to leave his projectile as-is until more peoples' feedback comes in, that's fine too. Don't just take my opinion as gospel. Oh, and the Fiend's blood color is still brownish...might want to update it.

One last thing for now...I see a couple warnings in the console at launch which appear to concern missing brightmaps.

MagicWazard wrote: What I meant for the Ghoul was more like a shotgun-style spray of droplets. Not sure if I got that across as intended. What do you think? Or maybe you can have the single large ball "splatter" upon impact, casting smaller sub-projectiles when it does.

Warning: Spoiler!

My version "spits" a ball which generates a Hexen-style poison gas cloud when it hits. He also spawns a similar cloud when he dies. I had no idea that the Heretic/Hexen Ghoul on the Repo did something very similar, but I liked the effect too much not to use.

As for the Fiend, if you want to split him off into a separate submission, that's fine, but I don't mind either way. Also, if you want to leave his projectile as-is until more peoples' feedback comes in, that's fine too. Don't just take my opinion as gospel. Oh, and the Fiend's blood color is still brownish...might want to update it.

One last thing for now...I see a couple warnings in the console at launch which appear to concern missing brightmaps.

Poison Gas as trails, (basing it off the amazon in Diablo 2 or the Poison Lost Loul & Tortured Soul) was something I had in mind & putting the projectiles to follow the lines of a few other poison spewing monsters on the Realm, so the example you've sent me is a massive help. Thank you. Going to try & hold onto the current sprite as long as possible (fixing the lost detailed pants as well as trial & error glowing eyes), the melee sprites with the Baron based fire around them caught my attention, so even if they're there now, just to be a powerful punch, at least it'll look different than other Revenants & make yup for possibly removing the poison damage altogether

The green Rev Tracer might work as a Seeker (with a cloud trail or drips) but It needs something more stand out than a replacement Revenant Ball so I'll be head down the route of, 1 or 2 projectiles. The nails will be gone. The thrown projectile might be... poison "mines" (thrown like grenades) just crossed my mind.

I've not noticed the Brightmap warnings on the console when loading, but will have a look, see what I can find (probably left the Ghost's in somewhere or removed something by mistake). The Fiend will be taking a seat while the colours get finished, I'll be tweaking the attacks as we decide what can be done with them so any updates on that might not have up to spec appearances.

After I've updated the Ghoul, I'll remove it from this group & submit it separately.

[Edit]
Found the Brightmaps issue (3-7 were missing). Corrected that for both.

[03/05]
Just a note on progress made for Ghoul. Sprite Green area replacement is nearly completed, the clarity of the missing detail looks a lot better Might still need a bit of work afterwards but when the current revamp is done, I'll be working on the attacks & separating the files when the current job's done. An Extreme Death sprite set is also being used (so will take a bit longer to complete). Brightmaps will be worked on separated.

Removing the Thrown projectile & the Darts/Nails, just keeping the Poison Punch & (returning to) a single homing projectile that will spawn poison gas (or just be a decorative effect) as a trail & on exploding. New sound effects for are going to be added, so it won't be another Revenant sound using Revenant based enemy, adds a bit more variety & stands out more.

After the Ghoul's submitted, the Fiend will be on it's own, not entirely sure where to go with this, although another more Stealth based enemy, crossed my mind, lower it's health & missile opportunities, phasing in & out, avoiding damage or even teleporting (maybe even Ice Damage, no other reason but it's a cold, dark atmosphere), made a few unsubmitted enemies with teleportation or evasion tactics & this seems a better idea. You think of Ghouls, you think of ghosts & a more "spooky, can't see you" theme instead of the bombarding missile user, that it currently is.

Made 2 variants of the Ghoul (2 files) with a slightly basic Green skin replacement, edited in as much as detail as I could, mostly along the legs & lower body (still needs a lot of work, but have I've had to reset it's lower body with a fresh green canvas & make as much tweaks as possible under current palette before moving on to custom colouring... less detail is lost from side & rear view sprites. Then worked on the attacks, getting the final outlines on what they will be sorted.

The only difference between the 2 is the Monster's Sight, Active, Death & Pain sounds. 1 has sounds taken (with permission & credit given to the man who obtained them) from the Revenant in Doom 4 (2016). The other has some sounds sent as alternatives in the template file sent to me by MagicWazard. Both seem to suit the Ghoul really well, will keep whichever sounds better to everyone. I'd only be going ahead with the Doom 2016 version, because it's now what I'm using for my own version offline.

It's got a more logical Missile (an exploding poison ball) that leaves & spawns Poison gases as it flies or hits something. Taken out the thrown & nail/dart based projectiles. On Death, the Ghoul leaves a final poison attack (suggested by MagicWazard, but also reminded me of the Poison spewing Zombies or Poison Explosive Bodies in Diablo2). Still retains it's Poison Damage for Melee but Damage Types only are set to the missile attacks. Really pleased with the whole attack & damage changes & how they are now going, it's really making this an enemy that is intimidating or something you'd dread to find in small groups without being too hard to kill.

The Alternative Death Sprites I had found for it, aren't being used, they looked totally out of place & were going to be added to unleash the poison cloud on death, instead of the Ghoul just dying (50/50 chance to jump between original & alternative). Now when it dies, you get a cloud of poison that will affect everything around it (enemies can be poisoned by it too).

With the new blood/body changes in place, I have no doubt this will still need some work, shades still follow the limitations of Doom's palette. Examples on updated files.

Improved Depth on Melee & body.

Spine is seen much Clearer all around, but most noticed when firing.

Utilised as much of the Green palette range from light to darkest to get as much detail as possible on darker areas below rib-cage that were usually just black.

Palette Became most Restrictive on Final Death Sprites. Detail is hard to make out from original Doom Revenant's Sprites as well, it became very confusing.

These were (using GIMP) a cut/replace (from example MagicWazard sent) over the Ghoul's Sprites originally used, editing out all unwanted Greens (along arms, hands, face, feet & legs) & then shading as much detail in as possible avoiding the most brightest greens as much as possible.

Decided it'd be best to remove the Fiend. It's going to take some pressure off me (working on 2 at once). Will re-submit the Fiend, if I can ever think of something original to do with it.

The sprites look OK to me, going off the previews. I'll have to open the archive up and take a look at them soon. I'm guessing the behavior will not have many surprises to me. For that reason, I'll be a little hesitant to make the approval myself...I guess that depends on how soon another mod tries this out.

For the sprites, you mentioned using GIMP; can you save the sprites out using custom palette? Will that make much difference between using the native Doom palette?

MagicWazard wrote: The sprites look OK to me, going off the previews. I'll have to open the archive up and take a look at them soon. I'm guessing the behavior will not have many surprises to me. For that reason, I'll be a little hesitant to make the approval myself...I guess that depends on how soon another mod tries this out.

For the sprites, you mentioned using GIMP; can you save the sprites out using custom palette? Will that make much difference between using the native Doom palette?

Using Doom's native Palette won't change the quality of the images. It was mostly several weeks tweaking with Doom's greens & working on the skin removal & adjusting reds on the upper arms, hands, lower legs & feet, but most noticeably across it's lower back & under it's ribcage (which basically black), so it now matches the original sprites chosen, that were too dark.


The poison damage changes*, caused by gas clouds spawned with it's tracer & shortly after death have made it a lot better than it was originally. The only difference between the two files is the interaction (sight/active/pain/death) sounds used by the Ghoul itself, but if the appearance & attacks are ok, I'll upload a final version with the Doom 4** Revenant sounds unless anybody prefers the other version, which used the sounds in the template you'd sent me.

*Since uploading this, I think I've made some more changes to the timing of the poison cloud's spawning when the tracers are flying. I'll update both versions if I have.
**They seem to suite it better & users had been given permission to use them freely (credit given), so I know everyone that needs to be given credit will get it & where all additional resources used came from faster with this version.