[Submission] Duke Nukem

Pistol Sounds changed, mostly to stay true to Duke 3D & the script errors fixed. I have increased the RPG missile & scaled it up slightly, the speed is now 15 instead of 10. It was (When I downloaded the weapon it is based off) 30 which was WAY too fast, anything higher then 12-18 seems more unbalanced, it's still avoidable & it doesn't do a huge amount of damage, it's basically a more accurate, faster & slightly strong Revenant Tracer instead of the behemoth it once was

Did test it at 18, but it seemed too fast for a missile this size, speeds like that would probably work better for lasers & plasma.

One of the key changes now is, every weapon reloads at some point, some faster than others so combat has definitely been more balanced out.

Nice touch on adding the melee attack, too. I'd be ashamed of you if you didn't add it in

It had to be put in, it would be a shame not to And it helps break up ammo consumption, so it works better for him as well as the players... just the poor Marine that has to suffer lol...

Well, as far as I'm concerned, the behavior is just about perfect now. He's well-executed and fun to fight against--he's definitely not a joke monster now. The only consideration I'd make is possibly decreasing the seeking strength of his RPG now that the projectile is faster, but it's definitely manageable as-is.

Now, the elephant in the room: I don't know yet if we can actually approve him or not due to the fact that he doesn't strictly fall into one of our existing Beastiary criteria (Doom, Heretic/Hexen, Strife). I'm talking with Torm about a possible solution for submissions like this, but there's no definite answer as of yet, and I want to wait for some other admins to weigh in with their opinion.

Either way, I guarantee people will get a kick out of this, even if he doesn't wind up on the Repo.

Now, the elephant in the room: I don't know yet if we can actually approve him or not due to the fact that he doesn't strictly fall into one of our existing Beastiary criteria (Doom, Heretic/Hexen, Strife).

Not my place to suggest this, but one thing I would suggest is adding an extra page like there is with the Armoury, for "other Monsters" that don't fit the Doom/Heretic/Strife appearance, but are compatible with ZDoom & GZDoom based engines, asking the users submitting to state where it would or might work best.

It might encourage more submissions from Quake, Duke 3D, Doom 64 & other games as weapons, example Blood's Sawed-off Shotgun have already been approved. But obviously that takes time, money & there would need to be a pretty big backlog of "out of Doom/Heretic/Strife" submissions first as this would be very selfish of me to say "just do it just for this one". That isn't fair on others who might have had ideas turned away in the past.

It was just a thought that came to mind as if I was to add some Strife damage changes to this, it would be better suited in Strife as a joke enemy or mysterious boss encounter, like it is for Doom now.

The only consideration I'd make is possibly decreasing the seeking strength of his RPG now that the projectile is faster,

Something I had thought about, but wanted to check first- will reduce the explosion & impact damage, make it more similar to the Revenant's missile, I know the Revenant's doesn't use explosive damage but the low damage from the projectile (10%) is going to be a bit wimpy on its own

Missile impact Damage stays at 10%, Explosive damage is now 15% (from 20%) dealing a total of 25% if you have no armour & will reduce the blast radius to 64 from 128.

Will update the description when submitted.

DBJ87 wrote: Not my place to suggest this, but one thing I would suggest is adding an extra page like there is with the Armoury, for "other Monsters" that don't fit the Doom/Heretic/Strife appearance, but are compatible with ZDoom & GZDoom based engines, asking the users submitting to state where it would or might work best.

It might encourage more submissions from Quake, Duke 3D, Doom 64 & other games as weapons, example Blood's Sawed-off Shotgun have already been approved. But obviously that takes time, money & there would need to be a pretty big backlog of "out of Doom/Heretic/Strife" submissions first as this would be very selfish of me to say "just do it just for this one". That isn't fair on others who might have had ideas turned away in the past.

Well, not to spoil anything, but actually, that's pretty much exactly what I was talking with Torm about--an "Other Monsters" category. We already have multiple monsters on the Repo that fit this criteria, and more in the Submissions queue (not just this one!). And he seems open to the idea. But we're waiting to hear back from some of the other moderators to see what their opinions on the matter are. If it happens, it won't be overnight. But it could, possibly.

Well, not to spoil anything, but actually, that's pretty much exactly what I was talking with Torm about--an "Other Monsters" category. We already have multiple monsters on the Repo that fit this criteria, and more in the Submissions queue (not just this one!). And he seems open to the idea. But we're waiting to hear back from some of the other moderators to see what their opinions on the matter are. If it happens, it won't be overnight. But it could, possibly.

Just some feedback from a user to an Administrator, it's good to know there's a chance this is possible,

Is the RPG missile damage set up ok now? Let me know if anything else needs changing.
Thank you.

I think the setup is fine as-is. At this point, any balance tweaks would be up to the preferences of the modder; the core behavior is solid. And luckily, Torm approved the idea of an "Other Styles" category, so this guy now has a fair chance of approval! With that said, I'm not going to approve it myself right this second--I'm going to give a little time for other administrators to weigh in on whether they feel this is appropriate or not, or if they have any feedback on the mechanics. If I don't hear any dissenting opinions or suggestions in a reasonable amount of time, I'll approve it as it is.

I'm going to give a little time for other administrators to weigh in on whether they feel this is appropriate or not

If it's not appropriate, I'm fine with that, said from the start this was a bit of a spur of the moment idea and if at any point it had no relevance, just let me know. I'm looking forward to some more feedback from Administration or other users.

I feel the combat is balanced out enough, the pistol change & having to stop to reload all the weapons are some of the high points for me, adds tactical gameplay and run 'n' gun offence opportunities for the player. And Duke's got plenty of health and versatility to still be a bit of a challenge to fight. At least he's not that dominating killing machine he started out as lol

Thank you for your help on this. I really appreciate it

I'm afraid this is not going to get my thumbs-up, and it's because of this:

MagicWazard wrote: First off, this is probably going to be hard to justify adding to the Repository just because it falls kind of close to a joke monster. I mean, how useful is a boss-grade Duke Nukem monster going to be to the average mapper? It's the sort of thing they'd use as a gag boss once and probably never again, and only if they're open to a gag boss in the first place.

Generally, I'm not a fan of the idea of a "special monster" being submitted.

Blue Shadow wrote: I'm afraid this is not going to get my thumbs-up, and it's because of this:

MagicWazard wrote: First off, this is probably going to be hard to justify adding to the Repository just because it falls kind of close to a joke monster. I mean, how useful is a boss-grade Duke Nukem monster going to be to the average mapper? It's the sort of thing they'd use as a gag boss once and probably never again, and only if they're open to a gag boss in the first place.

Generally, I'm not a fan of the idea of a "special monster" being submitted.

No problem. I've said a few times, this was a spur of the moment, stab in the dark idea. Made purely for experimental reasons, own maps and after finishing the original, I submitted it to see what is and is not relevant for future projects. Working on this helped with a lot of new items, enemies & weapons as well as helping me revise & improve a few of my own submissions on here.

I'm not going to complain if this is closed & scrapped. Thank you for your feedback.

Blue Shadow wrote: I'm afraid this is not going to get my thumbs-up, and it's because of this:

MagicWazard wrote: First off, this is probably going to be hard to justify adding to the Repository just because it falls kind of close to a joke monster. I mean, how useful is a boss-grade Duke Nukem monster going to be to the average mapper? It's the sort of thing they'd use as a gag boss once and probably never again, and only if they're open to a gag boss in the first place.

Generally, I'm not a fan of the idea of a "special monster" being submitted.

Yeah, even with the well-done execution, it is still essentially a novelty monster, being a representation of a very well-known character that is of limited use in most any Doom setting. With Blue Shadow's feedback taken, I'm going to officially say "no" to this, but I enthusiastically advise you to share this on the ZDoom forums and/or Doomworld if you haven't already. People should get a kick out of this--even if not for use in mapping, but just for dueling with. (I'll be keeping a copy myself for just that reason.) And I appreciate you putting the extra work into this, knowing from the start that it may not be "appropriate" for the repo.